Oliver Jaillon, CEO & CPO at Wakam leads this InsureTech Connect Panel Discussion with Patrick Smith, Global Insurance Leader at Deliveroo, and Quentin Colmant, CEO & Co-Founder at Qover. Hear how Wakam, Deliveroo, and Qover have successfully bypassed the traditional channels of insurance to protect the gig economy workers.

Transcript

0:00

[Music]

0:06

so good morning itc we’re super happy to

0:08

be here with you virtually unfortunately

0:11

and

0:11

but excited about talking about our

0:13

three ways collaborations between cover

0:16

wacom and deliveroo and how we were

0:19

successful we think about launching

0:20

products produced and operated digitally

0:23

for the gig economy

0:25

so first a few words about who we are

0:26

wakam uh we’re an insurer a full start

0:30

property and casualty ensure delivering

0:32

white label solutions digitally through

0:33

apis uh

0:35

to all kind of distributors uh across

0:38

europe uh we’re pan-european players now

0:41

maybe patrick i mean you can tell us a

0:43

little bit more about uh i would call it

0:45

the meteor its growth of delivery and

0:48

especially how you came up with an

0:50

insurance solutions for uh the riders

0:53

you know deliveroo has grown as a

0:55

digital platform uh not least because of

0:58

the consumer behavior

1:01

of

1:01

enjoying delivered food

1:03

more as a natural part of everyday life

1:07

rather than just special occasions

1:10

and essentially there are three key

1:13

stakeholders for delivery in the world

1:15

of deliveroo first and foremost there’s

1:18

you need hungry customers so as long as

1:21

consumers are hungry there’s a market

1:22

for delivered food

1:24

but providing them with what they want

1:27

when they want it is key critical

1:30

secondly there are restaurants so you

1:32

need people to cook the food that’s

1:33

going to be delivered and

1:36

rather than being disruptive delivery is

1:38

additive by providing restaurants an

1:41

additional income stream and a way to

1:43

scale their business

1:45

without the overheads of bricks and

1:47

mortar and finally you need a community

1:51

of uh boys and girls who want to deliver

1:53

that food

1:54

and therefore chiming into

1:56

the geek economy and

2:00

the desire of many people to work

2:03

at a time and a place that suits them

2:06

and in fact to work on many platforms is

2:08

at the heart of uh delivery’s world i

2:11

started working with deliveroo uh

2:14

over three years ago really focusing

2:16

initially on the corporate insurance

2:18

programs which i still look after but

2:21

but what was

2:22

clear was that a form of protection

2:25

through insurance was required for the

2:28

freelancers

2:30

and

2:31

what was also clear is that

2:34

traditional insurance did not quite do

2:36

the job

2:37

um

2:39

and it started forming in my mind

2:42

a kind of

2:43

if you like an ask of the insurance

2:46

industry of how can we find something

2:49

that is really super simple

2:52

that has superb user experience it’s

2:55

very easy for the beneficiaries of the

2:58

insurance to access

3:01

that uses the appropriate language and

3:04

repeatedly we often see in the insurance

3:07

industry great using insurance language

3:11

to consumers that really doesn’t work it

3:13

had to use the the language and the

3:16

culture of deliveroo in the way it

3:18

communicates with the community and we

3:20

were looking at personal accident

3:23

insurance we were looking at replacement

3:25

income if a rider was unable to work

3:29

we’ve been looking at from time to time

3:31

sickness cover

3:32

we’ve been looking at third party

3:34

liability so if you if you like all of

3:37

those protections a ride would need

3:39

but the test of any insurance is

3:42

at the point of truth does it pay did it

3:45

work was the language simple was was it

3:48

super easy for these stakeholders to

3:50

understand

3:51

and uh last but not least

3:54

the insurance arranged on a group basis

3:56

if you like with

3:58

unnamed beneficiaries was a key concept

4:01

of the insurance which of course isn’t

4:04

kind of normal in traditional insurance

4:07

and then finding an easy way to

4:10

to calculate and charge the premium

4:13

so it’s really works like a kind of pay

4:15

on use insurance so you get charged when

4:18

the exposure is there and when the

4:20

exposure is not there you don’t get

4:22

charged so it was quite a demanding list

4:25

i mean a short but simple list

4:27

but actually when you look at

4:28

traditional insurance it was quite

4:30

demanding which is why

4:32

you know we i hooked up with uh quentin

4:36

at a

4:37

cover and it needed some fresh thinking

4:39

uh to bring to the

4:41

i mean maybe content you can tell us a

4:43

little bit more about cover

4:45

and uh and also you can tell us a little

4:47

bit more about why you chose us i

4:49

founded cover with joshal

4:52

my associate in 2016.

4:54

we really are this kind of european

4:56

european insurtech that that pioneer in

5:00

the concept of open api and and embedded

5:03

insurance and and so far we are super

5:06

pleased to be active already in 11

5:09

countries and we cover more than 1000

5:11

insured took several great partnership

5:15

so so cover has really the same kind of

5:18

dna and same techn

5:22

however we are a financial intermediary

5:24

we are not an insurer and and i’m

5:27

someone very pragmatic so so it’s very

5:30

interesting because i was carefully

5:31

listening to what patrick said and it

5:34

looks like he he knew exactly what i was

5:36

about to say but we did not realize

5:38

before because i it is exactly what i i

5:41

was considering in terms of why

5:44

how did we help deliver so to be very

5:46

pragmatic when you think about

5:49

the geek platform

5:51

first and foremost what is key is this

5:54

global solution the global approach you

5:56

know deliver who is active in europe in

5:58

seven countries and what they want is to

6:00

have a kind of harmonized solution that

6:03

can you know serve the rider help the

6:07

rider um in a very

6:09

standardized and harmonized way and what

6:12

they want to avoid is that each country

6:14

is different and this is really key to

6:15

understand is that cover is based in

6:18

belgium and we operate in europe with

6:20

what we call the freedom of services and

6:22

for those who are from us and don’t know

6:24

freedom of services basically it

6:26

entitled a european business to operate

6:29

from his own country to all european

6:32

countries and by doing that by operating

6:34

from brussels we make sure that there is

6:37

one process one same operation one same

6:40

way to manage claim one same way to

6:42

serve delivery across multiple countries

6:46

and this is key because uh what is very

6:49

important for players like deliveroo is

6:51

of course to optimize the cost of

6:53

insurance and optimizing the cost is not

6:55

only the premium you pay but it’s also

6:58

the the the administrative cost on the

7:01

side of delivery to manage the program

7:03

and by having a pan-european approach we

7:06

enable to streamline the cost to be

7:08

super efficient in the way we serve the

7:10

client while traditional players

7:13

actually even though they could be

7:15

global they remain local it’s the sum of

7:18

local entities because each of them

7:21

would operate locally for example in

7:23

france in spain and in the uk so this

7:27

first of all pan-european approach is

7:29

key and the direct consequence of that

7:31

is something that patrick mentioned but

7:33

but it’s important to understand a

7:35

delivery rider might be for example a

7:38

spanish student that is actually

7:40

studying in france so if he has an issue

7:43

if he has a claim he would be super

7:45

happy to speak to the

7:48

call center or the customer care center

7:50

in english or he would be even more

7:52

delighted to speak in spanish and

7:54

because we have this kind of

7:55

consolidated operation that happened

7:57

european we are able to serve all the

8:00

riders in the native language wherever

8:03

there are in europe what was also

8:05

important and and i repeat a bit what

8:07

that it said but it is exactly my my

8:10

word is that what delivery was looking

8:12

or players were looking is to be able to

8:14

better manage um seasonality effects

8:17

because gig economy and food delivery

8:21

and see a lot of seasonability a

8:23

seasonality story but also

8:26

to manage externalities and kovi 19 is a

8:28

good example of what you call

8:29

externalities and how you do that is to

8:33

transform

8:34

a cost of insurance into variable cost

8:37

so what we’ve been able to put in place

8:39

is to really have a variable pricing a

8:42

per hour pricing or per uh other pricing

8:45

that actually manage uh positively the

8:49

risk for delivery and and and make sure

8:51

that we can face this seasonality or

8:54

externality and last but not least

8:57

for delivery you know it’s an unknown

8:59

risk when we started three years ago and

9:01

we went on the market to find an insurer

9:04

and we say look there is a great

9:05

opportunity to insure some people that

9:08

will try to deliver food as fast as

9:10

possible on the bike on the scooter and

9:12

we want to cover liability an accident

9:14

do you want to do it to do to ensure

9:16

that uh i would say 99 per person of the

9:19

insurer said no absolutely no so so it

9:21

was a new risk in a very fast moving

9:24

environment and it was key

9:26

to to find

9:27

a partner that was that was very open uh

9:30

to that and and and we as cover are very

9:34

proactive in managing the risk we are in

9:36

daily contact with patrick we have done

9:38

perfect i think thousands of pricing and

9:40

product simulation to continuously

9:43

improve the coverage improved optimize

9:46

the processes and and and you know

9:48

having this reactivity and even

9:50

productivity and monitoring the risk is

9:53

something key that we need to offer and

9:55

and and cover

9:57

really play here the role of financial

9:59

intermediary by being close to the

10:01

client and really serve the client the

10:04

same way so then the question you ask

10:05

olivier why why cam i would say to

10:08

people that are watching us if you are

10:10

an initial tech like us or a business

10:13

just work one time with wacom and then

10:15

you will understand why

10:17

that’s the best answer i could give to

10:19

this question and and you dare to take

10:21

some risk and at the end that was very

10:23

important to have someone that dare to

10:25

take some risk that there also to

10:27

address the risk and the pricing

10:29

continuously because we are a

10:30

partnership we really try to find the

10:33

the right balance here all together and

10:36

at the end you know doing business is

10:37

all about having fun and there are

10:39

really some great and nice smart people

10:42

at wacom same at deliveroo and it’s been

10:44

already three years we worked together

10:46

but it was three year very fun

10:48

relationship

10:50

thank you kanta uh i mean the whole

10:52

relationship with our partners like you

10:54

uh contact with cover is fully

10:56

digitalized i mean we try to give you a

10:58

full transparency about the

11:00

decision-making process which is not

11:03

uh very often the case with incumbent

11:05

insurer i would say that so we try to

11:07

give transparency and speed

11:09

and and like you said i mean i think we

11:14

dare to take some risks i mean an

11:15

insurer is there to take risks uh it

11:18

requires to change a little bit the

11:20

approach because uh historically i mean

11:23

insurers have been uh

11:25

working with actuarial models it means

11:27

that you analyze data from the past

11:29

to project the future so now we have to

11:32

work differently because there are more

11:33

and more new risks coming up like you

11:35

said

11:36

uh riders that have to deliver as fast

11:38

as possible

11:40

food to people is uh can be considered

11:42

as a uh as uh as the wrong risk to be uh

11:47

to be insured

11:48

but it’s actually the thing that we do

11:50

now and that we do thanks to you and

11:52

thanks to the conjunction of the of

11:55

collaborating a lot with delivery is

11:57

that through our api through our systems

11:59

we can adapt the pricing we can test and

12:01

learn and that’s what we’re trying to do

12:03

and now i mean um

12:05

our company grew from 50 million gwp to

12:08

400 million in in five years

12:11

and uh mobility is already one third uh

12:14

of that gwp

12:15

and uh and i think that that’s why we we

12:18

wanted to put a lot of expertise on

12:20

mobility and that’s why we love our

12:22

partnerships and across the three years

12:23

we’re learning i mean we keep on

12:25

learning

12:26

about improving the product improving

12:28

the customer experience improving the

12:30

technical results of course

12:31

of the products

12:33

and i think maybe i’d like to add up

12:35

some things that what makes sex

12:36

successful i think a partnership between

12:38

our three companies is also that the

12:41

rules have been defined very clearly i

12:43

mean uh at webcam we don’t do

12:45

distribution we will never do

12:46

distribution i mean this is your job uh

12:49

at cover understanding the needs of of

12:52

of delivery and building the right

12:54

customer experience with them and

12:56

building the right products we’re an

12:58

insurer we try to understand your needs

13:00

we try to build the right products and

13:02

we stay there

13:04

and that’s what we do in the value chain

13:05

so we consider that we are driving belts

13:08

between capital and distributors and

13:10

uh and i think that makes the the

13:12

partnership very successful uh because

13:14

everybody has a very clear and defined

13:17

uh role in this so

13:19

i would say so i would say trust and

13:20

willingness to innovate uh

13:23

top-notch customer experience european

13:24

approach like you said we were now

13:26

licensed in

13:28

uh 13 countries through freedom of

13:29

services and we anticipate to be

13:31

licensed into 28 european countries or

13:33

29 however you can’t

13:36

and

13:36

and this gives us a real assets to build

13:39

pioneer

13:40

program with distributors

13:42

um

13:44

maybe i mean patrick you want you want

13:46

to say a a few words because for for us

13:49

there were the drivers to build a

13:50

successful partnership like ours but

13:52

also there’s the human relation the

13:54

transparency the collaboration

13:56

and uh maybe you can talk a little bit

13:57

about those three years

13:59

yeah sure well uh i mean i think we’re

14:02

all agreed it’s been a journey but the

14:04

interesting thing in a world full of

14:06

change the journey never ends

14:08

i think one of the things we’ve alluded

14:10

to

14:11

but haven’t said directly

14:13

is a requirement for delivery of uh

14:16

complete compliance and governance

14:20

so when we talk about innovation it’s

14:22

not at the expense of doing things

14:24

properly in a very compliant way

14:27

so much so that the

14:29

design work and sourcing of insurance

14:31

for deliveroo

14:32

in fact is done through an independent

14:34

company called tribe advisory

14:36

which has other clients and other

14:38

collaborations with wacam and with the

14:41

with cover but to make sure that there

14:44

was no regulatory uh tripwire in terms

14:48

of creating something really quite new i

14:51

think in terms of the relationship

14:53

i mean keeping things simple and i think

14:55

the clarity on role

14:57

is is key critical

14:59

whenever i’ve seen in my experience and

15:01

i’ve been in the risk and insurance

15:02

world for

15:04

40 years

15:06

when you look at things go wrong

15:08

it’s often where there’s a cloudiness

15:11

about who’s responsible for what so the

15:14

simplicity has worked well for us

15:16

and actually understanding what the

15:18

mutual goal and objective is

15:21

so really there’s just one mission and

15:23

we’re all playing our part has been key

15:26

absolute trust and transparency so as we

15:30

we entered this journey actually

15:33

um it wasn’t without risk

15:35

um

15:36

i think

15:37

the key requirement for deliveroo was to

15:40

make sure

15:41

that

15:42

it articulated how it managed the rider

15:45

community in terms of onboarding in

15:49

terms of health and safety and all of

15:52

these

15:52

oversight responsibilities

15:55

just to be absolutely satisfied

15:58

that lack of claims data doesn’t mean

16:01

you don’t understand the risk

16:03

so

16:04

understanding how the whole operation

16:06

works was key critical to

16:09

all parties transparency was the key

16:13

and i would say flexibility and the

16:16

ability to

16:19

test

16:20

and change and be reactive proactive and

16:23

responsive has been absolutely key

16:26

critical

16:27

certainly what we couldn’t have was an

16:29

arrangement whereby

16:31

we only look to innovate once a year

16:34

around renewal time

16:35

in the world of deliveroo and actually

16:38

in the world we live in

16:39

of uh climate change and pandemic and

16:43

all those other things

16:45

we collaborate collaborate on a kind of

16:48

365 basis we might need to respond

16:51

almost immediately to something that

16:54

either we predicted or we hadn’t

16:56

predicted and i think uh

16:58

last but not least

17:00

is

17:01

never forget the end user and ultimately

17:05

we can create great things that are no

17:08

relevance

17:09

not even important to the end user so

17:12

it’s got to be attractive appealing and

17:15

in the moment of truth it has to work

17:18

and in our world that is unfortunately

17:21

if we have any kind of accident and

17:24

we have lots and lots of claims

17:26

uh members of the public who have been

17:29

innocently lost or damaged need to be

17:31

looked after they’re all potential

17:33

customers of deliveroo

17:35

our riders if they can’t work uh god

17:38

forbid if they’re involved in accidents

17:41

of the greatest severity we need to look

17:44

after them

17:45

under the terms and conditions of the

17:47

policy we need to look after their

17:48

families but we need to do that in a

17:51

non-standard responsive way

17:54

so no reservation of rights no kind of

17:58

elongated consequential claims process

18:01

we collaborate we get together we assess

18:04

what’s necessary and we react quickly in

18:06

a quite kind of non-standard but uh very

18:09

exciting way so

18:11

that i think are the hallmarks of the

18:13

relationship

18:14

they’re why the relationship has lasted

18:17

three years and there’s no reason to

18:19

suppose that the relationship

18:21

for deliveroo and maybe other clients

18:23

that tribe and cover have will will

18:26

extend and extend and extend

18:29

well happy to hear about that uh patrick

18:31

but as well the the nature of

18:34

transportation is changing uh clearly

18:36

we’re moving from property to usage and

18:38

that changes i mean how insurance has to

18:41

be delivered uh clearly and maybe uh

18:44

content but cover you can say a few

18:46

words about that

18:47

and and also i mean my vision that why

18:49

cam is our vision is that kovi 19 has

18:52

even accelerated uh that movement of

18:55

fractional usage and i’d like to know if

18:57

you’re both on the same page with me

19:00

yeah absolutely thanks to the vso i i

19:02

believe kovi 19 has indeed changed and

19:05

we see a lot of new requests regarding a

19:08

mobility solution and i’m also a strong

19:10

believer like you that

19:12

it’s going towards what we call embedded

19:14

insurance and and what we are doing all

19:18

together is a perfect example of

19:20

embedded insurance in which we add

19:23

insurance as a service into another type

19:26

of mobility as a service so

19:29

that’s a great kind of collaboration

19:31

about embedded insurance

19:33

and patrick yeah and for me i mean zero

19:36

carbon is now mandatory governments

19:38

support it taxation supports it and the

19:41

people support it kovit 19 gave us clear

19:44

skies and now we’ve got an ever more

19:47

increasing focus on the last mile and

19:50

the last mile can’t be petrol driven so

19:53

that drives electric vehicles uh we’re

19:56

living in a subscription-based world now

19:58

rather than asset owned and therefore

20:01

insurance what a great opportunity to

20:03

adapt and to modify and you know those

20:06

that move the quickest will reap the

20:09

greatest rewards

20:11

yes

20:13

i agree so so thank you itc and thank

20:16

you to have listened to us and

20:18

you can see that we were very happy

20:20

about working together for the last

20:22

three years and i hope it will just go

20:23

on for another three years

20:26

[Music]

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