ITC hosts this Fireside Chat with Olivier Jaillon, CEO & CPO at Wakam and Sten Saar, CEO at Zego covering everything you need to know about how to successfully (and quickly!) launch your insurtech products on an international scale.

Transcript

0:01

[Music]

0:06

uh well so good morning or good

0:08

afternoon i don’t know but um uh i’ll

0:10

introduce myself i’m oliviering i’m the

0:13

chief executive and enablement officer

0:15

of wacam

0:16

uh that used to be called la paris

0:19

genesions and i’m here with

0:21

stan um who’s the chief executive

0:24

officer of zego

0:26

so hi everyone

0:28

hello i’m i’m good it’s it’s great to be

0:31

at itc uh virtual stage

0:35

yes we’re both very excited about that

0:37

even if it’s virtual

0:38

well we’re here to

0:40

to talk today about our partnerships

0:42

and uh to be to be precise i mean how

0:45

how we’ve been successful together uh to

0:48

launch more than 40 products in six

0:51

countries in less than two years so

0:54

there was a there was a journey not to

0:55

say an adventure

0:58

so

0:59

so stan if you want to say a few words

1:01

about that

1:02

yes uh well first of all on uh yeah stan

1:07

ceo co-founder zigo so

1:09

what we do is we are commercial auto and

1:12

new mobility in short tech so we ensure

1:15

let’s say

1:17

delivery drivers food delivery parcel

1:19

ride hailing and also electric scooters

1:23

and do that

1:24

together with uh olivia and welcome in

1:28

many european markets um and we also

1:31

gather real-time telematics data from

1:33

the users whilst also integrate with

1:35

work providers which means that their

1:37

granular understanding of risk

1:39

is significant

1:41

uh but yeah we started working with uh

1:43

what come um well two two years ago or

1:46

so and it was fascinating when we

1:48

counted the number of products the other

1:50

day we launched together it was like 40

1:52

products in six markets which is pretty

1:54

impressive and i remember with one of

1:57

the traditional insurance companies we

1:59

tried to launch one product and it took

2:01

15 months and we just both gave up

2:04

because it was just not getting us

2:06

closer so it’s been a it’s been a it’s

2:08

been a brutal hard-working journey but

2:11

it seems very rewarding thank you for

2:13

that well so yeah as we come i mean we

2:15

we’re a full stack insurer

2:17

uh

2:18

uh we tried to be a full digital insurer

2:21

as we deliver all of our products

2:23

through apis and

2:25

we uh we’re doing that now in more than

2:27

13 european countries which allows us to

2:29

work with the pan-european entities like

2:32

zigo

2:34

i think now to give a few key figures i

2:37

mean our our apis are consumed more than

2:39

two million times uh per week

2:41

and uh and we try to also automate our

2:44

policies through a blockchain and i

2:46

think we’re one of the biggest use cases

2:48

now uh probably

2:50

on the european basis as we have more

2:52

than 300 thousand policies that are

2:55

administered uh by the blockchain so

2:57

what we’re trying to achieve as we come

3:00

is to be

3:01

as agile and as quick as possible in

3:04

delivering uh taylormade insurance

3:06

products

3:06

and uh and basically we’re trying to be

3:08

that driving belt uh between the

3:10

distributors of of personalized

3:12

insurance products and and the capital

3:15

which part of which lies

3:17

with ranchers and part of rich lies with

3:20

us

3:21

uh so maybe uh uh stan i mean i i

3:24

thought we could

3:25

look at uh a few in bullet points maybe

3:28

of uh of the key success factors

3:31

that allowed us you and us

3:34

uh

3:34

to launch uh those 40 products in less

3:37

than two years and more than six

3:38

countries

3:39

the first one i think maybe we can both

3:41

talk about it is slas i think on both

3:44

sides both on the the distributor sides

3:47

and on the carrot side maybe you want to

3:48

start about this

3:50

yes absolutely i mean if you think about

3:52

these short tax in general when they

3:54

start the business uh time is of assets

3:57

so uh because you are running kind of

4:00

you’re spending more than you’re making

4:01

so you want to shorten the time uh

4:04

getting things out as as short as

4:06

possible um and

4:08

hence kind of a getting an alignment or

4:11

agreement with a partner how quickly and

4:13

when we deliver is critical when we

4:16

started

4:17

i think we’re very clear that look this

4:19

is the expectation on both sides x

4:22

number of weeks for this x number weeks

4:25

for y

4:26

and we just both teams were aligned and

4:28

understood what they’re working towards

4:31

which kind of uh incredibly

4:33

enabled to speed up the

4:36

achieving two objectives

4:38

yeah and as a carer i think we’re

4:40

probably one of the few ones to accept

4:41

to give full transparency on our

4:43

decision-making process on the

4:45

governance

4:46

and to accept slas

4:48

because i mean uh i think probably

4:50

everybody knows that the product life

4:52

cycle and in a standard insurance

4:54

company in an incumbent companies is

4:56

very slow uh i think we’re talking about

4:59

months uh if not years and now we’re

5:01

talking about weeks i mean already at

5:03

what camera i mean our standard

5:04

methodology gives a time frame of 10

5:07

weeks

5:08

to put a product live but with ziggler

5:10

because we were very very confident into

5:12

their vision

5:14

uh about the usage-based insurance

5:16

industry and and the potential of

5:18

development of of their vision that we

5:21

have accepted to shorten

5:23

clearly

5:24

also that time frame and we’ve accepted

5:27

to have slas on our side so we’ve

5:30

accepted to put constraints

5:32

on on the product creation side and i

5:34

think that was one of the key success

5:35

factor

5:36

and i think like anyone who tries to

5:39

work with other kind of uh

5:41

uh

5:42

insurance companies my advice would be

5:44

like set clear expectations from the

5:46

very beginning in terms of when and what

5:48

you want to achieve because then you are

5:50

aligned you know you you know where the

5:52

finish line is

5:54

because if you don’t agree it’s going to

5:55

be very messy and you’re going to get so

5:57

frustrated

5:58

yes

5:59

maybe one of the the second key success

6:01

factor that we can discuss together

6:03

is uh from day one

6:06

how to connect uh both it

6:08

infrastructures to make sure that uh the

6:11

data flows uh

6:13

and that we’re very clear from day one

6:16

who’s doing what

6:17

and uh with what kind of uh technology

6:20

and with what kind of expectations

6:22

so um there again is the same story

6:25

because like everyone builds their own

6:26

infrastructure slightly differently

6:28

you could be the stack or

6:31

like the engineering stack could be kind

6:33

of even data the way you structured and

6:35

so forth so as long as like and when you

6:37

start the uh you don’t have proper

6:39

necessary api documents uh

6:42

um and so forth so again like there is

6:45

critical to get that data flowing but

6:48

again

6:49

there’s a lot of flexibility required

6:51

like we

6:52

we work with uh welcome but also in some

6:55

other cases you have to be able to

6:57

really look at an individual basis to

6:59

get the data flowing because at the end

7:00

of the day you’re selling policies

7:02

you’re selling premium and the

7:04

information that everyone is after

7:06

is the same but you need to be able to

7:09

well integrate and quite frankly with

7:10

some who tried to work in the past

7:12

they’ve not been able to integrate

7:14

at all or don’t have any of that kind of

7:16

a concept but

7:19

i think on our side as well that we got

7:21

the teams aligned and again you even do

7:24

small points like that one

7:26

meaning of a word could mean different

7:28

another system and aligning those from

7:30

early on removes a lot of kind of uh

7:34

assumption and confusion i think which

7:36

which we managed to do

7:39

yeah i think and we yeah fair and i

7:41

think we were both very clear in the

7:42

beginning i mean i mean who was bringing

7:45

what kind of value added i mean i think

7:46

you’re extremely good at data capture

7:49

and uh you know risk assessments by all

7:51

the data that you collect uh from your

7:54

clients on our side i mean uh then

7:57

through those datas i mean we can

7:59

through a portal of api uh price uh the

8:03

products that we’ve co-constructed

8:04

together

8:05

and and the fact that uh

8:08

through other tooling uh the data flows

8:11

about policy and man about the billing

8:14

about the claims and men

8:16

authorizes us i think and i think we’ll

8:18

talk about it after about the the method

8:20

of test and learn to uh assess what is

8:24

the technical profitability on a monthly

8:26

basis together then we have a

8:29

shared clear vision of the technical

8:31

results on a monthly basis on each of

8:33

your business

8:35

and uh and i think because we’ve been

8:36

very clear about connecting

8:38

uh the both back offices from day one

8:41

and uh and assessing those data’s

8:43

regularly uh so that we can look at the

8:46

business accurately yes as accurately as

8:49

we can

8:50

absolutely um

8:53

maybe the the

8:55

the difficult word uh for a care

8:59

uh sometimes uh uh to to share is

9:03

what is uh our vision of the compliance

9:06

because compliance is

9:08

getting bigger and bigger we are in a

9:10

regulated world in the insurance

9:12

industry and i think also uh sharing a

9:15

clear vision of the compliance i think

9:17

was one of the key success factor and

9:20

maybe uh you wanted to a few words about

9:22

that let’s say if you work traditional

9:24

insurance company you get that kind of a

9:26

top level bind it gets stuck in kind of

9:28

a operation or you go in from the kind

9:31

of operations level then it kind of

9:33

struggles to go up it’s like and it

9:36

predominantly always gets stuck in kind

9:38

of a compliance and and risk because

9:41

often it’s so overly complicated like

9:44

half the things that

9:46

a traditional insurance company wants to

9:47

see from a partner

9:50

do not even exist or are not even

9:51

required because of the size of the

9:53

insured tech company uh even by the law

9:56

is not required you know and and if you

9:58

don’t kind of a drop that model and try

10:01

and be practical it’s very difficult to

10:03

be able to work together and

10:05

in our case we were both very

10:08

practical like you follow the law you’re

10:10

very clear what needs to happen and how

10:13

but at the same time you don’t over

10:15

complicate things there was always like

10:17

okay how can we do it thoroughly but

10:20

simply was a kind of a mantra that

10:22

we followed and and uh the expectations

10:25

there then kind of a we’re able to we

10:28

were able to speed up

10:30

both our parties because we knew what we

10:32

had to do around that yeah

10:34

maybe a another key success factor is

10:37

that i think like i said i think we

10:38

think at webcam that you’ve made an

10:40

amazing job at capturing data and

10:42

assessing risks

10:44

and uh into that usage-based insurance

10:47

trend uh

10:49

let’s say

10:50

but

10:50

i mean of course for us as an insurer

10:53

we used to use datas from the past and

10:56

uh to try to project the future

10:59

this is the way we’ve been taught about

11:01

the how the actuarial science should

11:04

work and uh

11:06

and uh we’re kind of going the reverse

11:08

uh with you guys uh

11:11

and so i think we’ve also put together a

11:14

method of test and learn with a with a

11:16

clear cycle uh so maybe we can elaborate

11:19

you and i about this

11:21

yeah i mean it’s it’s again when you

11:23

probably ask

11:24

apple like how many prototypes they had

11:27

until they launched an iphone that was

11:29

probably hundreds and hundreds right you

11:31

know in insurance products or any

11:32

financial services products you design a

11:35

product and then you launch it and

11:37

often it requires a lot of iteration to

11:40

get it right based on the customer

11:42

feedback and i think we’ve developed and

11:45

we knew that from the get-go so which

11:46

meant that we

11:48

established the process that how do we

11:50

it’s right how do we look at this

11:51

because once you put it out it’s not

11:53

done that’s when the actual work starts

11:55

that’s maybe like 30 of the work and

11:57

then it’s the kind of weeks and months

11:59

of iteration to get it really to a great

12:01

place

12:03

yes and on our side what we requested i

12:05

think it’s

12:07

speed uh to access technical results

12:10

because like you said so we i mean some

12:13

sometimes

12:14

to to go live with 40 products in less

12:17

than two years we had to make bets

12:19

on uh and use maybe algorithm that were

12:22

more uh i would say based on machine

12:26

learning and artificial intelligence

12:28

that real actuarial analysis and then

12:31

and then really the challenge uh for us

12:34

for carrying the risks is then to assess

12:37

very quickly if there is anything going

12:39

wrong on the hypothesis that we use uh

12:43

to build uh those uh pricing systems

12:46

again uh i’d like to emphasize the fact

12:49

that it’s it’s a major change in the way

12:52

we’re looking at our business as an

12:54

insurer because

12:55

we have to move from

12:57

looking at the data from the past as

12:59

accepting that

13:01

that companies like zigo will do a great

13:03

job at assessing that uh

13:05

capturing uh data assessing risks and

13:09

and slowly iterating uh towards the

13:12

right uh pricing approach for that risks

13:16

so we’ve talked stan a lot about

13:19

processors uh you know

13:21

sharing knowledge uh transparency and

13:23

everything but i think that the the the

13:26

human encounter that we had you and i in

13:28

the beginning and the alignment of the

13:30

stakeholders the human part of all of

13:32

this is is more than key in what we’ve

13:34

done so

13:36

yeah absolutely i’m i mean it’s it’s

13:38

probably i would argue the most

13:39

important part because like if let’s say

13:42

you want to build a business in one

13:44

location and do like 40 products if i

13:47

want to build a business in many markets

13:48

different products and we are not the

13:50

line it’s it’s never going to work and

13:52

like

13:53

trusting each other that hey we are here

13:56

to achieve this objective but come from

13:58

different angles

14:00

work well and you know we’ve

14:03

we’ve had many tough conversations about

14:05

from many angles right then it’s like

14:07

that’s part of it that’s normal and you

14:08

need to be able to trust the other party

14:11

that hey uh we are here for the same

14:13

objective things will be tough things

14:14

will be messy but we’ll figure it out

14:17

and and i think it’s very important to

14:19

have that sense of alignment with the

14:22

key stakeholders is integral in those

14:25

business relationships

14:26

yeah and if i remember correctly and

14:28

maybe we can we can conclude on that i

14:30

mean

14:31

basically everything was decided in the

14:33

lunch in london in 15 minutes then it

14:36

was just execution that requested a lot

14:38

of a lot of um discussions like you said

14:41

sometimes was messy sometimes it was

14:43

easy but at the at the end of the day i

14:46

think we trusted each other from day one

14:49

and that’s not that’s something that

14:50

comes from the guts i think we shared a

14:52

vision uh about the industry and it

14:55

should evolve and that’s what i think

14:57

created uh that amazing uh shared human

15:00

capital

15:01

olivier it was great to chat thanks for

15:03

having me and uh listeners have enjoyed

15:06

the rest of the conference

15:09

thank you stan and i wish you the best

15:10

for the for the

15:12

continuation of your journey with your

15:14

company

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