Luisa Barile, CFO at Bought by Many, Peter Goodman, Co-Founder & CEO at Aventus, Sten Saar, CEO at Zego, and Rich James, Commercial Manager at Digital Partners – a Munich Re Company sit down to discuss the foundations of digital health insurance in this panel discussion hosted by ITC.

Transcript

0:00

[Music]

0:05

and welcome to

0:07

what we think is a very very interesting

0:09

and exciting

0:11

insurance webinar and we’re going to be

0:13

talking about some big topics actually

0:15

in this session uh the main theme is

0:18

brown how do you build um a health

0:20

technology ecosystem so a pretty big

0:23

topic

0:24

but we’re going to talk about data

0:26

a bit about the future of insurance

0:29

and some other hot topics as well so i

0:30

think it’s going to be a fascinating

0:31

session

0:32

i’m matt whittingham i’m from a company

0:35

called gallon growth and just briefly we

0:37

are experts in

0:39

digital health technology and we help

0:41

insurers and pharmaceuticals

0:43

really find great partnerships in the

0:45

health technology ecosystem so that’s a

0:47

little bit about us but i’m delighted to

0:49

have a really really stellar panel for

0:52

you so without further ado let me just

0:54

hand over to the team and it would be

0:56

great just to hear very quick intro um

0:59

who you are who you work for and your

1:01

role and let’s start with marco

1:05

thanks so much for the uh for the call

1:07

out uh so very happy to be here today we

1:09

always learn a lot through participation

1:11

in these programs and look forward to

1:14

feedback from the folks watching the

1:15

webinar when it comes out uh as i said

1:17

i’m mark ahush i’ve worked for pinghan

1:19

group for more than three years based in

1:22

hong kong i’m the chief medical officer

1:24

of a

1:25

relatively small compared to the group

1:27

size

1:28

corporate captive vc it’s about a

1:29

billion u.s dollars

1:31

we’ve deployed getting on for a quarter

1:34

to a third of that amount and we focus

1:37

on investments in fintech and healthtech

1:39

where i’m working in that sector that

1:41

have the ability to further ping on

1:43

groups ambitions in the health ecosystem

1:46

that it’s building out on the mainland

1:48

most of our work is done with a mainland

1:50

focus trying to overcome the kind of

1:52

issues that we’ll discuss i guess

1:54

through this webinar very happy to be

1:56

here hands back to you thanks for that

1:58

marco cole hi welcome um tell us a

2:01

little bit about your uh about dot dot

2:03

co hey matt well uh thank you guys for

2:05

having me and thank you for moderating

2:06

the panel it’s really a pleasure my name

2:08

is cole surchak uh i’m the co-founder

2:11

and ceo of doc doc

2:13

and uh doc doc’s the world’s first

2:15

patient intelligence company and what we

2:17

do is

2:18

we collect data nobody else has in the

2:20

industry about physicians and then we

2:22

put that into a format uh that allows

2:25

physicians to

2:27

match based on the physician’s unique

2:28

expertise and the doctor’s unique needs

2:30

at a condition and procedure level um

2:32

thanks cole look forward to hearing more

2:34

about doc doc in a second uh frank

2:36

devine there welcome frank um

2:38

i think you used to be based as well in

2:40

age didn’t you but now you’re in paris i

2:42

think yeah exactly exactly i’m uh i’ve

2:45

been relocating to paris for the last uh

2:48

years but but i’ve been living in in

2:51

china in shanghai

2:53

to be more precise for the

2:56

between 2015 to 2018 where i created a

3:00

innovation lab for for for axel i’m now

3:04

heading the uh

3:05

open innovation activities across uh

3:08

across the globe for exa group uh and

3:10

and axon x which is a dedicated

3:13

organization within the group to lead

3:16

uh the innovation um journey of axon

3:21

super great and i’m really curious about

3:23

what your focus is going to be but we’ll

3:24

get onto that in a second so yeah the

3:26

first topic really is

3:29

there was a great quote from microsoft

3:31

which i’m sure you’ve all heard which

3:33

talks about coving the acceleration

3:35

and how they’ve seen uh you know two

3:37

years digital transformation in about

3:39

two months

3:41

um so things are really moving very very

3:43

quickly and you know we certainly see

3:45

that in asia and other parts of the

3:46

world

3:47

so

3:48

very interested to know about how you

3:51

are approaching building out your health

3:53

technology ecosystems because all of you

3:55

come from from slightly different angles

3:58

marco i’m going to i’m going to start

3:59

with you because ping anne of course

4:02

really seen as a sort of technological

4:05

leader in the space um you know today i

4:08

was reading all about some of the

4:10

innovation that you guys have been doing

4:12

could you give us a little flavor

4:13

perhaps about some of you know your

4:16

focus

4:17

and being perhaps in the technology

4:19

leader at the moment what’s next for you

4:21

because you’re already doing so much

4:22

very curious about what’s next for you

4:24

so look i think it’s a great way to stop

4:26

that answer is to rewind a little bit

4:28

and think back to the

4:31

the kind of problems we’ve been facing

4:33

uh in healthcare in general which we

4:35

address so we focused on price quality

4:37

service as everybody else’s

4:39

and we believe very strongly that the

4:41

notion of only being able to pick one or

4:43

two of those three metrics to succeed on

4:47

um was the binding constraint for most

4:49

of the last 20 30 years

4:51

we’re now in a position and we we see

4:53

the digitization

4:55

being able to break that paradigm where

4:57

we can achieve both lower cost of

4:59

service therefore lower prices on the

5:01

market

5:02

greater access to

5:04

healthcare greater service and then

5:06

through other various applications

5:07

greater quality in the market so we see

5:09

this as a huge move forward but we’re

5:11

very much focused on what those three

5:14

underlying dimensions mean for our

5:15

customers and our prospective customers

5:17

our policyholders and our subscribers so

5:19

that’s that’s kind of been a rolling

5:21

mission for us when we look at this in

5:24

terms of what’s next for us it’s really

5:27

everything is next to us right we are a

5:29

big enough player with a big enough

5:31

ecosystem that spans both direct patient

5:33

care all the way through providers

5:36

insurance and payers and farmers well

5:39

more recently so everything is next for

5:40

us and our role at the pingan global

5:42

voyager fund is to kind of come up with

5:45

those puzzle pieces externally that

5:47

would complement what is being developed

5:49

internally by our great ping our

5:51

technology division what would you say

5:53

has been one of the

5:54

sort of standout experiences perhaps

5:56

when you think about a customer in

5:58

mainland china perhaps in the health

6:00

business

6:01

you know what would you say has been a

6:02

you know stand out perhaps a new

6:04

customer type that you’ve been able to

6:05

ensure or something innovative in that

6:08

space what would be a good example there

6:09

i would give a big shout out to our

6:11

telemedicine platform right so being

6:12

able to take what was initially

6:15

something

6:16

almost 100 percent free to customers

6:19

essentially text input or point and

6:21

click on an app

6:22

and having that run mostly through ai to

6:25

be able to take that and move into

6:26

different segments of the market where

6:28

there is an ability to move beyond the

6:30

average four to five percent paying rate

6:33

for a telemedicine consult

6:35

that we would achieve without 70 million

6:37

plus monthly active users and move that

6:39

into more of an online concierge

6:41

medicine where we’re actually charging

6:44

12 300 remember a year for someone to

6:47

get essentially a private doctor

6:48

consider service but to have that

6:50

delivered online being able to move to a

6:53

model where even in the states where i

6:54

was working for 15 years before joining

6:56

ping on being able to get to consider

6:58

service there involves paying 25

7:01

thousand dollars a year for your family

7:03

being able to deliver that service at an

7:04

affordable price to middle-income family

7:06

in china i think that’s a huge advantage

7:10

once you have that as a customer

7:12

relationship you can then insert

7:14

multiple remote monitoring applications

7:16

their multiple infomediary applications

7:19

onto that but i think building that

7:20

bridge with the customer as a first step

7:22

that’s really been the standout thing

7:24

that that i hope makes it as a as real

7:27

as you’re keen to hear let me just jump

7:29

to jump to frank quickly because frank

7:31

um i mean acts are you know sort of

7:33

coming from i guess a very different

7:35

place than ping and you’ve got a longer

7:38

legacy in many different ways both

7:40

technology the organization and perhaps

7:43

your your customer base and the legacy

7:45

of decades and decades of policies

7:47

you know when you look at

7:49

what’s next for you

7:52

given the

7:54

sheer amount of stuff that just needs to

7:56

be done in some of the the traditional

7:58

big multinationals

8:00

what are some of your priorities you

8:01

know how and how do you make those calls

8:03

and and i guess this is very relevant to

8:05

your current role now next

8:07

yeah absolutely thank you mark for

8:09

asking it’s it’s it’s a it’s a good

8:12

question actually so so i think the

8:14

complexity is also coming from having

8:17

axa in 60 uh

8:19

in more than 60 countries

8:22

and as we know healthcare is delivered

8:24

quite

8:25

differently in those in those different

8:28

countries so

8:29

so i think uh one of the uh we share

8:32

more or less the same vision uh that

8:34

what has been said uh

8:37

uh previously

8:38

we one of our key mission is to

8:43

deliver affordable health care

8:46

for people driving the quality up and

8:49

the cost done

8:50

so that’s definitely

8:53

i think the the

8:56

the mission the commission for for for

8:58

insurance and we have the legitimacy to

9:01

uh to to do it

9:02

one of the our first uh priority in that

9:06

in that space is is definitely to

9:09

uh digitalize our customer journey um uh

9:13

and and this is getting more and more

9:15

traction since the kovid 19 situation

9:18

and for this we have we have for example

9:20

and i will try to illustrate

9:23

um

9:24

we’ve launched a companion app

9:27

in in hong kong and philippine

9:29

has a health

9:32

partner to add to our customer recently

9:36

but um

9:37

the second priority i would say and it

9:39

has is to be done

9:41

simultaneously is to deliver added value

9:44

services to our customers through

9:48

access entities uh uh for them to

9:51

deliver to their uh

9:53

customers and and patients but also

9:55

through partnership

9:57

uh for their clients or their employees

9:59

so uh uh for instance we’ve done

10:02

during kaveed a partnership with accor

10:06

uh hotel with 5000 hotels where we do

10:10

deliver medical assistance

10:12

to uh to their uh uh employees and

10:16

um and clients so that’s typically the

10:19

type of uh

10:21

added value services and um

10:25

marco was talking about telemedicine

10:27

this is one area where we do also

10:30

provide

10:31

some new services to uh to customers but

10:34

also again to

10:36

employees and to uh

10:38

clients of of partners so for instance

10:41

in france we’ve launched uh uh and we’re

10:44

delivering actually a telemedicine and

10:47

teleconsultations to uh

10:50

five million uh clients uh

10:53

so far

10:54

frank i just wanted to rewind

10:56

just slightly to things like you know

10:59

the core part of the business and things

11:00

like

11:01

the industry’s been talking a lot about

11:04

trying to do straight through processing

11:06

both of sort of customer onboarding and

11:08

underwriting but also the claims piece

11:11

and that appears to have been pretty

11:13

difficult for a lot of you know the big

11:15

multinationals i mean how how how far

11:18

along that particular journey are you

11:20

because it’s interesting that kind of

11:22

core customer experience and there’s

11:24

this other interesting

11:25

future looking innovation piece but on

11:27

that on that core area are you seeing a

11:29

lot of traction there

11:31

yeah we do

11:32

and notably uh from underwriting to

11:35

claims as you said there is a need

11:39

coming from the traction which is coming

11:42

from the from the customer them and

11:44

notably there is one key

11:47

topic around this which is

11:50

to to try to cover the full passion

11:52

journey and not only underwriting and

11:55

claims and that’s why we are coming with

11:57

this

11:58

telemedicine strategy

12:01

where we do build

12:03

buy invest and also partner with tech

12:05

players but this is where

12:08

from the symptom checker to appointment

12:11

booking to

12:13

a

12:14

teleconsultation

12:16

reimbursement

12:19

visits to a specialist etc it should be

12:23

completely

12:26

handled uh with with with additional

12:29

services and digitalization of the

12:31

journey great great awesome we’re going

12:33

to come back to one or two of those

12:35

points but but cole you can hear um from

12:38

both marco and frank and how important i

12:41

think the tele consulting piece has is

12:44

and i think that’s been a you’ll know

12:45

better than anybody how a big growth

12:47

area that’s been i mean tell us a little

12:49

bit about your

12:50

i’m interested in two or two things

12:52

really one is just give us a sense of

12:54

telling medicine teleconsulting where

12:57

where do you think it’s going to go next

12:58

because it sounds like it’s almost a

13:01

potential jumping-off point from just a

13:04

consultation to potentially into

13:06

wellness or preventative health or

13:08

remote monitoring it’s very interested

13:10

in that piece

13:11

and also very interested in what your

13:13

experience has been like working with

13:16

the insurers you know and what have you

13:17

learned from that experience

13:19

i think telemedicine’s kind of i don’t

13:21

want to say it’s a hoax

13:22

but i think all of the hype around it

13:26

uh

13:27

vis-a-vis

13:28

vis-a-vis utilization

13:30

um it’s been an awakening of something

13:32

that was coming for a long time

13:34

but it’s not really going to provide the

13:37

foundational change

13:39

that needs to happen in the insurance

13:41

industry to get better at i think you

13:44

were talking earlier about price quality

13:46

and service

13:47

and i think that’s right i think those

13:49

three variables are the key aspects to

13:51

look at

13:52

and and what i would submit to the

13:54

insurance industry as a whole

13:56

is is that we need to stop thinking

13:58

about features and start thinking about

14:00

foundations so what is the knowledge

14:03

architecture

14:05

that you’re going to use to onboard a

14:07

whole variety of features

14:10

and how are they all going to fit

14:11

together so that the consumer actually

14:15

has a better experience every time

14:17

and that there’s feedback loops built

14:20

into the overall

14:22

the entire value chain that makes the

14:24

insurer more efficient

14:26

so it’s really it’s not telemedicine or

14:29

gp checker or

14:32

physical exam or third party

14:33

administrator these are all important

14:35

aspects

14:36

but what you really got to build is a

14:37

foundation a knowledge architecture and

14:39

a foundation that allows all the data to

14:42

come in in a machine readable format

14:44

and then it flows all the way through

14:46

the claims data the entire patient

14:48

journey

14:49

if there is health and wellness that

14:51

data feeds back in so that the net

14:54

result is is that you have a learning

14:56

organization

14:57

so one of the biggest realizations that

14:59

i came to as i dug through the bowels of

15:01

many insurance companies in asia

15:03

is how truly siloed they are

15:05

how claims is in this division and

15:08

insurance broker and agents are here and

15:10

bank assurance is here and brokerage is

15:12

here

15:13

and

15:14

they’re not actually learning from each

15:16

other they’re not growing there’s no

15:17

synergy there’s nothing driving you want

15:19

to know the major reason we have medical

15:21

inflation it’s because there’s no

15:23

there’s no data feedback loops that

15:25

drive competition in the system

15:28

and and i mean i can dig more into that

15:30

but so i think at a high level

15:32

what we need to be thinking about is

15:33

building digital processes for a digital

15:36

age and not taking analog processes and

15:39

just bringing them over to www.analog

15:42

and and what i mean by that at a higher

15:45

level

15:45

look at amazon

15:47

amazon’s cheaper

15:49

amazon has better inventory amazon has

15:52

better logistics amazon has amazing

15:54

customer service

15:55

they’re able to do all of that because

15:58

they digitize the whole journey and that

16:00

allows them to have feedback loops that

16:02

make everything more efficient

16:04

so the whole thing ends up being better

16:06

and i love what you i love what barca

16:08

was saying about ping on i think the

16:10

first group to actually create the

16:12

underlining foundation to tie these

16:15

pieces together

16:16

will actually be better at everything

16:18

it’ll be a fundamentally better

16:19

mousetrap

16:20

and i think that journey looks something

16:22

like

16:23

telemedicine

16:24

triaged into physical exams triaged into

16:28

deep provider analytics uh around

16:30

specialty specialty steerage

16:32

transitioning right into third party

16:34

administration or tpas or claims

16:37

processing

16:38

done with deep knowledge analytics so

16:40

all of the data is coming in in a

16:42

machine readable format

16:43

and then from there

16:45

going right back into dr steerage to

16:48

help on telemedicine to help on

16:50

specialty consultation but it’s the

16:52

feedback loops that are critical

16:54

you know i think ping on did an amazing

16:56

job of going big early with ping on good

16:58

doctor i mean i think what was ping on

17:00

good doctor series 8 was a half a

17:02

billion dollars like that’s amazing to

17:05

have an insurer think that big let me

17:07

just interject let’s ask marco i’m

17:09

curious marco

17:11

pinghan’s often held up as you know the

17:13

the best perhaps you know in terms of

17:15

technology in terms of what cole’s just

17:17

described you know almost a complete

17:19

view and a complete data capture all the

17:21

way through from onboarding

17:23

to

17:24

uh you know the hospital visits the

17:25

claims the med the meds you’ve been

17:27

prescribed how much of that journey do

17:30

you understand at pingham do you have

17:32

the whole lot or there’s still bits

17:33

missing for you so i think you know

17:35

where we are advantage is through a uh

17:38

getting on for a decade old partnership

17:40

with discovery of south africa in our

17:42

own market leading health insurance

17:43

business in china right so it’s

17:45

obviously still a very small component

17:47

of the overall payers which are

17:49

predominantly government and out of

17:50

pocket but having discovery around with

17:53

the vitality program um we we have

17:55

always felt uh advantages us because of

17:58

that deep knowledge of you know to

18:00

cole’s point of being able to affect

18:02

post enrollment post subscription the

18:05

behavioral choices through incentives

18:07

and behavioral economics so i think on

18:09

that part i think we are good in terms

18:11

of remote monitoring i think it’s a work

18:13

in progress we would really love to be

18:15

able to offer our more than 10 million

18:18

subscribers and health insurance the

18:19

kind of suite of all different

18:22

validated and approved

18:24

and and shown to produce benefits for

18:27

both sides the kind of tools that are

18:29

out there in the market that we’re

18:30

scouring around in in the venture

18:32

capital land um i think that is still a

18:34

work in progress and i’m sure frank will

18:36

agree that you know we we always want to

18:38

be able to help our customers more we

18:39

don’t want to be intrusive we don’t want

18:40

to monitor them in a way that

18:42

is more to our benefit than their

18:44

benefit we want to make sure that

18:45

there’s a real alignment there

18:47

especially for chronic diseases i’m very

18:49

heartened by what i see on our

18:51

telemedicine platform and in our elderly

18:53

care services elsewhere in the group

18:55

which is really trying to make sure that

18:57

patients who do suffer from diseases

18:59

where the kind of daily monitoring

19:01

technology enabled monitoring chatbot

19:03

access

19:05

is going to help them so i think where

19:07

we have that that vision

19:09

um that that call articulated and i

19:11

think for all of us in this industry

19:13

right we are we’re working hard to build

19:15

that out um no one i think not even in

19:17

america i mean if you want to be brutal

19:20

about it not even amazon itself was able

19:22

to get this thing happening for its own

19:24

employees um in the three-year

19:26

partnership with jp morgan and berkshire

19:28

hathaway so it’s it’s tough for everyone

19:30

even in hyper-developed markets it’s

19:32

going to be tough for us i think as long

19:33

as we have that vision we’re in a good

19:35

place to see that through if the

19:37

customer journey becomes digitized if um

19:41

more of that information there’s a

19:42

familiarity with what you’ve been

19:44

prescribed maybe you can start to

19:46

compare that to other people being

19:47

prescribed

19:49

something similar have a similar kind of

19:50

complaints and then you can do do you

19:52

see

19:53

do frank or marco do you see

19:55

that happening in terms of better price

19:58

transparency maybe almost price

20:00

competition between providers

20:02

um

20:04

for patients

20:05

yeah i think it is market specific uh

20:07

for sure and it will be on the

20:09

transparency of data and how far

20:12

people are

20:13

willing to share um if we look at the

20:17

setup that has been

20:18

put in place in israel for instance 20

20:21

years ago where they have 20 years of

20:24

of data passion data actually available

20:28

for an ecosystem of startup to develop

20:30

on that

20:32

specific features due to this data for

20:35

instance if you take uh a sample of your

20:38

blood in in

20:40

now

20:41

in france you just have statistically

20:43

the statistic vision of where do you

20:46

stand now but you don’t have the the

20:48

other three or four or ten um uh

20:52

blood testing that you’ve done for the

20:54

last 10 years so you don’t have your

20:57

progression on on on that which is

21:00

bringing

21:01

new type of uh actually um

21:04

uh

21:05

uh

21:06

data to to to be analysis uh uh if if

21:10

you see uh what i mean so so i think the

21:13

setup in terms of data it’s quite uh

21:16

different uh across different countries

21:19

but if we uh look at what uh

21:22

coal is doing with duckduck it is really

21:24

an amazing job to

21:27

have this

21:28

uh database and

21:31

and and comparison to uh

21:34

quality and price and and uh i cannot

21:38

agree more uh with what has been said by

21:41

michael this is definitely

21:43

where we should look at and and and try

21:45

to find a way to uh uh deliver this uh

21:48

these services to the uh uh caregivers

21:52

uh but also to uh to to insurance i i’m

21:55

gonna move this on in a second but i

21:56

just wanted to just one point the tpas

22:00

um

22:01

how big at frank probably for you you

22:03

know

22:04

because the traditional insurers have

22:05

had the sales force and there’s also the

22:08

tpas

22:09

um

22:10

both of which are sort of interfaces at

22:12

various points in that customer journey

22:14

and actually perhaps make data

22:16

collection

22:17

harder

22:19

are you finding that is the case at axa

22:21

and

22:22

how do you get over that barrier around

22:24

that complete data driven view of the

22:26

customer yeah no so um having a tpa

22:29

doesn’t mean that um

22:32

we don’t have access to some uh to some

22:34

uh

22:35

data so so

22:38

i think

22:39

we’re talking here about uh the capacity

22:43

the data analytics capacity that need to

22:46

be enhanced for sure on all those type

22:48

of uh different sets of of data which

22:52

might not be the case of today so

22:54

there is a data itself and there is the

22:57

capacity to uh to do the

23:00

and to provide algorithm and and and

23:03

with machine learning model modalization

23:05

etc etc so so for me we’re talking about

23:08

an additional layer on top of it but

23:10

definitely yeah this is something that

23:12

we’re uh working on we’ve been doing

23:15

some uh for instance partnership with

23:17

shift technology which is doing uh

23:22

fruit detection for instance with a lot

23:24

of

23:25

data analytics capacity uh shift has

23:28

been created within axa i would say a

23:31

long time ago and we’re working with

23:33

them with more than in more than 15

23:36

markets so

23:38

that’s exactly the type of

23:41

companies and and and tech players we’re

23:44

looking at

23:46

very interesting discussion

23:48

let me just leave um

23:51

ask you a final question really which is

23:52

around

23:54

um actually the importance of

23:55

partnerships importance of companies

23:57

like dot doc

23:59

in your overall you know view of

24:01

building a health ecosystem and

24:03

digitizing that customer journey

24:05

uh marco i i can guess perhaps what

24:07

you’re going to say but how important

24:09

are those partnerships in in ping adam

24:11

and what you’re going to do next

24:13

i think they’re crucial and i think

24:15

everyone on the panel will agree

24:16

i think you know we’ve been talking for

24:18

the last half an hour just about how we

24:21

we optimize or make incrementally better

24:24

a

24:25

function which seeks to help patients

24:27

bear the risk of stochastic health care

24:29

events right

24:30

and you know if we get that completely

24:33

done through partnerships paul people

24:35

like coal with people like rosalind ku

24:37

in in cxa in southeast asia um we still

24:41

have a lot of work to do in terms of

24:43

shifting risk within the healthcare

24:44

ecosystem two players like frank and i

24:47

who who come from a background where

24:49

we’re here to bear risk right so the

24:51

performance guarantee for a provider

24:53

system vis-a-vis a payer or a patient

24:56

those are risk pools that currently are

24:58

not served by anyone that we could serve

25:01

um the risk pools around performance

25:03

guarantee for a midtech sales force into

25:05

a hospital delivery system so i think

25:07

there is a lot of things we can do

25:10

in this ecosystem along the lines that

25:12

you’ve talked about

25:13

with partnerships and that that is an

25:15

exciting part i think that keeps frank

25:17

and i

25:18

on our toes looking around for the the

25:20

next opportunities to add values to to

25:22

every side of this equation yeah great

25:24

uh and frank at next you know what’s the

25:27

balance for you in terms of internal

25:28

build versus external partnerships so

25:31

within axa

25:33

next we have you know the build capacity

25:35

the buy capacity the the investment

25:39

capacity and the

25:40

partnership each topic has to be uh

25:43

studied and then for for this type of

25:46

features we think that we can build it

25:48

on our own or build our own startup

25:51

for this one we definitely need to

25:53

partner uh for

25:57

luke we have invested

25:58

recently in a company called capital

26:01

delivering

26:02

services to caregivers in hospitals and

26:06

to patients in hospitals so that for

26:08

that one it was an investment in into

26:10

the company and then we had them to

26:12

scale

26:13

i think everything has to find the right

26:16

uh uh scale

26:18

uh which is uh today our main focus

26:22

and uh yeah we are happy to to partner

26:24

with the with the specialists uh on the

26:27

market with the best specialist that is

26:29

uh that are bringing added value to the

26:32

ecosystem uh of all

26:34

but cole mentioned a point which i

26:36

believe it’s important we need an

26:37

infrastructure at some point and and and

26:40

uh insurance company could be this uh

26:43

yeah this uh this backbone and and we

26:45

can

26:46

find a way to plug different uh things

26:48

the purpose of all of this again is to

26:51

bring affordable care

26:52

um

26:54

in may maybe like fight in the

26:56

financially inclusive way so we also do

26:59

partnership with western union for

27:01

instance

27:02

where

27:04

we can bring healthcare services to a

27:06

population that were underserved uh uh

27:09

by the past there is many ways of

27:12

bringing uh

27:13

healthcare

27:15

to um

27:16

to uh to new people and also to handle a

27:19

new type of risk related to that okay

27:22

and cole um

27:24

as an external person looking at the

27:26

insurers

27:28

what would be sort of your number one

27:30

thing on your wish list that you wish

27:32

the insurers would uh would move to next

27:35

i you know i’m

27:37

so i think we started doc doc a few

27:39

years too early

27:40

and it was through grit and

27:42

determination that we got where we are

27:44

um because we were a bit early to this

27:46

party this party’s only just starting

27:48

we’re in the first inning of insurers

27:50

starting to actually even begin to frame

27:53

the nature of the problem that they’re

27:55

dealing with

27:56

to learn how to steer medical intent to

27:58

start understanding what the knowledge

28:00

architecture needs to look like for the

28:01

data to flow through to start thinking

28:03

about how wearables will fit into that

28:05

knowledge architecture how behavioral

28:07

science fits into it we’re in the very

28:08

early days

28:10

so i feel like you know buddha says the

28:12

universe is perfect and it’s our

28:14

perception that’s flawed and i think

28:17

that’s totally accurate and i’m right

28:19

where i’m meant to be the company’s

28:21

right where it’s meant to be and we’re

28:22

making great traction so i i’m not you

28:25

know i’m optimistic you know covid has

28:27

been terrible for the world but it’s

28:28

been great for health tech companies

28:31

that are trying to overcome

28:32

organizational inertia and insurance

28:35

and so

28:36

you know i’m very very optimistic in

28:38

what we’re doing

28:39

and if i look back in retrospect it

28:42

couldn’t have been done any other way

28:44

you know i had to believe eight years

28:45

ago we were on the doorstep of epic

28:48

success or i wouldn’t have done this

28:50

and so it’s just you know overnight

28:53

success 20 years in the making

28:56

great well on that positive note we are

28:59

out of time gentlemen frank marco cole

29:02

thank you very much for your time

29:04

um i hope to meet some of you in person

29:05

one of these days but um thanks for

29:08

thanks for your time

29:13

[Music]

29:16

you

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